Why I will buy nothing (updated 12/19/05)
So because of some heat I have taken for my comments supporting "Buy Nothing Day" (BND) and the ideals behind it I have decided to write an explanation of why I do support this holiday. Not just because of the secular ideals behind it (I am not sure if that is the right wording but I mean that even if I was not a Christian I would support this idea) but also why my faith in Jesus has compelled me to support it. After I wrote this post I realized that it is really long but I hope it is enlightening and challenging and worth reading I think it is one of the best things I have ever written and comes from my heart. The grammar and spelling might be bad but I felt the need to get it up and out now and fix parts later.
American (Western) consumption is out of control. We are killing the earth and the people who will live on it in the future. American’s greed has distorted the word “need” and has lead us to be a culture that consumes unmercifully. If you want to learn more about how this is happening look, you can find the information anywhere (find out when South Africa will run out of water, that one will scare the crap out of you (google south Africa water crisis that’s a start)). So the day after thanksgiving is the pinnacle of Western consumption and it is a day to stand up and say I think this is bad and we should do something about it. Because of those reasons alone I support this holiday but that is not where it ends for me and now my faith takes over and pushes me further.
Now I know many people will say “O.K. I see not wanting to hurt the people who live on the earth but the earth itself doesn’t matter.” Yes God will destroy the earth one day and so if it looks a little dented who cares. Well I believe God cares, at least a little. The world was created out of an overflow of joy and to display His glory. So I feel we should honor the earth, clearly not as much as we honor God, God’s Word, or people but to say it is something that is important to us is not wrong.
Now I think those are great reasons to enjoy BND but I think there are even more. My major reason for celebrating this day is: “I see this day as a great way to protest or make a statement about how we as Americans spend our money.” This day above all others makes the most sense to me. It is the day where American consumerism is not only seen as O.K. it is embraced and glorified. I am not saying anytime we buy something it is bad. I buy things, I just see this day as a day to stand up and set myself apart with an extreme statement that hopefully represents how I live my life and spend my money the other 364 days of the year. I would love to see other Christians stand up and do the same, but in no way do I think they are doing anything wrong by going out and shopping that day, I think when pushed this at first that is what I might have implied and that was wrong of me to do, BUT I think I am really on the right track with the stuff that follows and if you think I’m way off I would love to discus it more because I will be making some strong statements. To stand up and say we have a problem and it’s getting worse.
So the rest of this is basically why I feel we who claim to be Christians need to set ourselves apart from American culture when it comes to our spending habits.
Recently at a church in Minnesota a sermon was given saying “It is O.K. for a Christian to own a Lexus.” I disagree with this idea; I think a Christian should not own a Lexus or a million dollar home. Most people’s first response, “You are judging them.” No, I see their actions and am making a comment about what I see and how it affects their relationship with God. I want what is best for them and I feel they are missing a better blessing form God by using their money in a way that does not bring Him glory.
I believe Jesus was very specific how we should spend our money he did not avoid the issue I think Jesus has called us to a higher standard of living (what a play on words someone buy me a hotdog). Jesus talks about money more than anyone in the Bible so we have a great spot to start from and a great high priest who has not been silent on the subject. I think I could spend weeks looking at every different passage but to keep it a little shorter I would like to just briefly look at a couple of these and let you look at more if you feel the need to. I would like to establish the ideas that 1. Love of money puts us at odds with God. 2. How we spend our money reflects what we find most valuable and ultimately trust money, worldly possessions, or God. 3. It is not how much we give but how we give. 4. God desires for us to live simple lives for His glory and our joy.
1. Love of money puts us at odds with God and diminishes how much we value Him. Matthew 6:24 (ESV) ”24 No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.“ So that is a good place to start you cannot serve money and God. The desire for money will be at war with the desire for God in your heart. Mark 10:23-25 says, “23 And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!" 24 And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, "Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God." Money will make it difficult for some to enter God’s kingdom. Some will find money more desirable then God.
2. How we spend our money reflects what we find most valuable and ultimately trust money, worldly possessions, or God. Matthew 6:19-21 “19 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” The things we own and do are a reflection of what we desire and what we see as supremely valuable. There are other verses that would support the idea that when we trust anything but God it is sin.
3. It is not how much we give but how we give. Luke 21:1-4 “1 Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, 2 and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 3 And he said, "Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on." Jesus has no concern with how much the widow gave the amount is not important it is the heart behind it. God still loves the giving heart of the rich but the better blessing is bestowed upon the widow.
4. God desires for us to live simple lives for His glory and our joy. Luke 12:32-34 says, 32"Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Here is what John Piper says about these verses in a message given on December 14, 1997.
“Focus for a moment on the words, "Sell your possessions." Who was he talking to? Verse 22 gives the answer: "Then Jesus said to his disciples." Now these people were by and large not wealthy. They didn't have a lot of possessions. But still he says, "Sell your possessions." He doesn't say how many possessions to sell. To the rich ruler in Luke 18:22 Jesus said, "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Sell all your possessions. When Zaccheus met Jesus, he said (Luke 19:8), "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount." So Zaccheus gave fifty percent of his possessions. In Acts 4:37 it says, "Barnabas sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet." So he sold at least one field.
So the Bible doesn't tell us how many possessions to sell. But why does it say sell possessions at all? Why? Giving alms - using your money to show love for those without the necessities of life and without the gospel (the necessity of eternal life) - is so important that if you don't have any liquid assets to give, you should sell something so you can give. But now think what this means in context. These disciples are not cash-poor rich people whose money is all tied up in bonds or real estate. Most people like that do, in fact, usually have fairly deep savings. But Jesus didn't say, "Take some of your savings and give alms." He said, "Sell something, and give alms." Why? The simplest assumption is that these folks lived close enough to the edge that they did not have cash to give and had to sell something so they could give. And Jesus wanted his people to move toward simplification, not accumulation.
So what's the point? The point is that there is a powerful impulse in the Christian life toward simplicity rather than accumulation. The impulse comes from treasuring God as Shepherd and Father and King more than we treasure all our possessions. And the impulse is a strong impulse for two reasons. One is that Jesus said, "How hard it is for the rich (literally: those who have things) to enter the kingdom of God!" (Luke 18:24). In Luke 8:14 Jesus said that riches "choke" the word of God. But we want to enter the kingdom vastly more than we want things. And we don't want the word of God choked in our lives. So there is a strong impulse to simplify rather than accumulate. The other reason is that we want the preciousness of God to be manifest to the world. And Jesus tells us here that selling things and giving alms is one way to show that God is real and precious as Shepherd, Father and King.
So the second point is that trusting God as Shepherd, Father and King carries a strong impulse toward simplicity rather than accumulation. And this brings worship out from the inner, hidden place of the heart into more visible actions for the glory of God.”
I agree one hundred percent and believe in a simple lifestyle.
Now back to the Lexus and the American church. Do we live our life like that? Does someone who owns a Lexus or a million dollar home live like that? I just don’t think they do. There possessions speak of what they treasure. They may give away loads of money and then say well this is left over so I’ll buy some extravagant things for myself, and while they may not be sinning they are certainly missing out on a blessing God desires to give them.
So those are big things that's easy, what about the small things? Is it ever appropriate to buy a new car or something that we want? When do we cross the line of simple to extravagant? How do we make judgments about what to buy? Well it's a fine line we must walk. We should think hard and pray hard about every decision I guess I would ask this question as a guideline though. How often do we as a culture and individuals error on the side of being too simple? It is pretty rare and I know there is Christian liberties but I would hate to see us fight for the liberties of the rich while the hungry, needy, and lost of the world continue to fight for food, water, shelter, and even more imporatantly while the lost of the world continue to wander in the dark.
I hope I have not bitten off more than I can chew here. First off I’m the chief sinner, I still buy things I don’t need, I am working on it and praying God would refine my heart in this area, so do not think I’m saying I’m with out guilt.
In the end I ask the question about November 25th, 2005. Where do you want to stand, is it in line to get ten percent off on mittens? Or do you want to stand up and say America, American Christians we have lost our way let us value and trust Christ above everything else! Here is where we draw the line. Here is where the revolution starts…
Godspeed,
Caleb M. Saarela
P.S. Usually I have "cool" lyrics here but this is too long if you are really interested go read the song Vultures below.
Labels: Rants and Raves, Serious Stuff, Social Justice
12 Comments:
Caleb, I left you a response on my blog with some further thoughts.
Well I was going to buy you a Christmas present but I guess you aren't getting anything from me this year
Actually I was going to buy you a Lexus, but now I feel so guilty about it, forget about it.
I want to start by saying that I agree. American consumerism and materialism is a disgusting orgy of gluttony that spits on the spirit of Christian giving. I think we have to be careful, though, not to swing the pendulum too far the other way. I'm talking about your condemnation of people who own things like lexuses, expensive homes, and so on. To say that it is always wrong to own a Lexus is both hypocritical and short-sighted.
Where do you draw the line? A Lexus is a luxury car, but isn't a car itself a luxury item? Is owning a Hyundai or Datsun somehow more morally acceptable? Couldn't you get a lower-paying job and just ride your bike or walk to it? What about eating 3 times a day, that's certainly a luxury most people in this world lack. What about owning more than 2 sets of clothing? That's certainly pointless, we could do laundry by hand every night. Or what about a couch? We could sit on folding chairs for a tenth of the money. Is your contention here that these things are wrong? It's easy to condemn people who own obvious luxury items like a lexus or a million-dollar home. The communists did it extremely well. But let's not forget that just the fact that you're reading this comment (anyone, not just caleb) means that you have 1) a computer at your disposal, 2) the internet at your disposal, and 3) spare time at your disposal. Why haven't you sacrificed these "superfluous luxuries" (certainly you don't need them to live) for the greater good of the Kingdom? The standard you're proposing is categorically impossible to meet. What's more, we shouldn't even want to.
Let me go further. Christianity would be unable to function without the surplus wealth of rich Christians. With whom did Jesus live and eat if not people who had more room, food, etc. than they needed for subsistence? Christian ideals of money include frugality and hard work. These things, all else equal, lead to the accumulation of wealth. Examples of this are found throughout scripture. Abraham is described as rich in "livestock, silver, and gold" (Gen 13:2). Job was colossally rich at the beginning and at the end of his story, and despite the fact that he lived a live of incredible luxury, God boasted of him to Satan. How, then, can riches be wrong? How can ownership of luxury goods be sinful? God didn't say "wow, Job would be really cool if he'd just sell all his many posessions and live in a mud hut." Instead, he called Job "a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil." Job was admired in part because he treated his vast wealt the right way. Satan rightly points out in the next verse that the reason Job fears God is how richly God has blessed Job. That's what wealth is for. It's a mirror that directs our gaze to God.
Here's another example: the parable of the talents. The king who was leaving for a while gave his servants various amounts of money. Mark that: various amounts of money. God is not an economic egalitarian, or any other kind of egalitarian. He deliberately made one of his servants rich, another average, and another poor. This is found everywhere in scripture. 1 Samuel 2:7-8 tell us that "The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low and he exalts. He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor."
So, what were these servants intended to do with the money? Why, they were intended to go out and multiply it! The entire time the king was gone was to be devoted to the acquisition of wealth. The one who failed at this was condemned harshly, and God took even his little away from him and gave it to the one who had the most, who was called a "good and faithful servant" for investing his money so well that it doubled. Am I taking this parable too literally? I don't think so. Money is a blessing God provides us, and while the "talents" in this parable refer to all God's blessings, that includes money too, and using money for the purpose of making more money is perfectly acceptable as long as the motivation is correct. This is important. The rich servant's goal was not to make himself rich, but it was to have a greater gift to give on the return of his master. This should be our goal. If we are gifted in dealing with money, by all means, deal with money. Do it well. Make lots of money. And be ready to give it all up if it is necessary to further the kingdom. If it isn't, enjoy it.
Riches and poverty are both states of being dependent upon the grace of God. They make no difference in the fundamental goal of human existence. Even Satan was forced to admit how powerful a weapon a rich man was if he was faithful to God. God's provision of riches to men like Abraham, Jacob, Job, and Joseph of Arimathea allowed these men to be powerful testimonies to the truth of who owns the cattle on 1000 hills, as long as they remained faithful.
This should be our standard of behavior. Not that it is wrong to be rich and live in luxury, but that whether in plenty or in want, in riches or in poverty, our every action is focused on the Glory of God. If Jesus glorified God in poverty, then men like Job, Cornelius the Centurion in Acts 10, and Zacchaeus glorified him with their wealth, and through it. Let those of us who have been blessed with so much follow their example, and not condemn those whom God has blessed yet more richly for how the Lord leads them to spend their wealth.
Silas
Silas, I guess this is one of my points in the original writing was, why do we as Americans feel the need to defend our wealth? Why do we feel the need to fight for the liberties of the rich when the rest of the world is starving?
You start your argument by talking about where do we draw the line? In the end would not it make for sense for us all to live in total poverty not eating or ever buying anything. Well I guess I will use the same argument to say there is a place where it is O.K. to draw a line. If we say it is O.K. for us to own a million dollar house then why not 10 million dollar house? If a forty thousand dollar car is O.K. why not an eighty thousand dollar car, and a summer home and a boat maybe a fifty thousand dollar cabin? I see your point in where do we draw the line? I guess I would say we do have to draw a line or we will end up justifying everything. It is O.K. to draw a line and say “Hey you have gone to far.” In fact my feeling is that they are really missing a blessing from God by spending their money in such a manner. If I saw you doing something and I felt you were missing a blessing from God because of this action, hopefully I would speak up and challenge you in that area of your life. It seems though if we do that in regards to money we cross a line, and are accused of being a communist.
You also said “Christianity would be unable to function without the surplus wealth of rich Christians. With whom did Jesus live and eat if not people who had more room, food, etc. than they needed for subsistence?” I guess I just don’t agree, yes the wealthy can be used, but to say the whole system would crash is a little much. A good example is the Macedonians in 2 Corinthians 8:1-15. They gave out of their poverty I guess to say God needs the wealthy is a little much…
I guess I want to make it clear that I never said that having money is a sin. Being rich is not bad. I will poke fun at my parents they do pretty well but are they living in sin, I don’t think they are. I guess I want to point out that it is how we view our money, Abraham was willing to give everything (even his son), Job say his possessions as from God as was not upset to lose them (Job 1:21). So wealth is fine as long as we see them like this. “If they are taken away it is good.”
I want to talk about your interpretation of the talents. I do think you are taking the parable to literally. Remember there was one intended meaning and interpretation so lets look at the parable and the context in which it is presented. Let’s look at all of Matthew 25, in this Chapter Jesus is talking about his second coming and his return. One reason I have a hard time saying that this passage is talking exclusively about money is because of verses 26-30. Here it talks about the servants giving their master his money back and then the “worthless servant being cast into hell.” If we want to take this parable literally then we will have to give money to Jesus to enter heaven and the one who does not present enough profit to our Lord will be thrown out. I cannot accept this as consistent with the rest of scripture. So I think an appropriate question would then be what is Matthew’s intended point? I believe after careful consideration and discussion with my roommate Mitch that Matthew is talking about the measure of our faith. So it is my opinion that the parable of the talents is not entirely relevant to our discussion. Yes, God has given to everyone differently and some have more money than others. In Luke 12:48 Jesus says, “…Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.” Again I don’t think Jesus is saying that it is wrong to be rich but when you are you will have to give an account of how you spent your money. In the same way a person who is talented will have to give an account of how he or she used his or her talents.
Another thing you said that I think is really unbiblical is “If we are gifted in dealing with money, by all means, deal with money. Do it well. Make lots of money. And be ready to give it all up if it is necessary to further the kingdom. If it isn't, enjoy it.” The idea I disagree with is that if you have money left over enjoy it. I agree that we should enjoy our money, but we should not enjoy our money the way the world enjoys it’s money. What will bring us more joy? Buying a Lexus or spending our money to help the less fortunate, I believe American Christians have been fooled to believe that they will enjoy the Lexus more. In the end I guess I would like to see a place in scripture where God says I have given you these possessions and money so that you will enjoy them. Because if you find it I’m going to quit giving my crap away and enjoy them.
Second Corinthians 8:13-15 is another example of what our wealth is for. Our wealth is meant to be a blessing to others that they may bless us when our fortunes change. Again, how is our money meant to be spent, to gratify ourselves or to sustain others?
I guess this whole thing has left me wondering why is it such a sensitive issue. I believe we are supposed to live like this in each other’s lives. We are quick to help someone who is in a relationship that might not be entirely edifying but why can we not say that someone is using his or her money in a way that is not entirely edifying? I believe strongly that the American Church has bought into a health and wealth gospel that is wrong.
I guess what I’m saying is that it is not wrong to be rich but you are right to say that our every action should be to glorify God, and I guess I can say with some confidence that I don’t see the way God is glorified in a million dollar home and a extravagant luxury car. In the end those things will perish and they will be destroyed but the souls of our fellow man are eternal and I have a hard time fighting for a Lexus when people around the world die because they can’t eat…
P.S. Mitch helped me with this stuff thanks Mitch...
Caleb, I just read your post, and I have to say that I feel entirely convicted. For most of my life, God has incredibly blessed me with a desire to give. But over the past few years, things have happened in my life that have scared me and instead of trust, I have reacted in fear and clutched things closer instead of simply being a conduit of God's blessing. Anyway, I say all of this to make the point (or, I guess this first one is a pre-point) that 1)you would make an excellent pastor. I am as convicted and challenged by your post as I have been by Piper's sermons. God is working mightily in you and through you. 2)I am completely tracking with the points you made. Also, after reading Silas's post, I thought, Hmm... he has a point too. But after thinking more about it, I think the issue isn't money. It isn't superfluosity in our lives. It what we do with these things. How do we see them? Wealth is a counterfeit form of security. Security is really only found in God. It's like that verse: "Some trust in horses and some in chariots, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God". Do things of this world have a grip on us? It's like what Piper talked a few weeks ago. Where is your heart? Would you sell everything that you have to purchase that field with gold? I take "sell everything" to mean, not only literally sell everything, but also, to sacrifice everything in your life for the greater joy of knowing and being with Christ, and showing His greatness to the world. Easy to say, a lot harder for me to do. But to be blessed with incredible wealth to spread around to those in need--I can't think of many things better. And all of this motivated not solely by helping those who are hurting, impoverished, etc, but the motivation being that of a heart so entirely devoted to Christ that I truly count all things as a loss as compared to knowing Christ, showing Christ, living in the humility, awe, and gratitude of all that He is. American consumerism and greed are the fruit (fruits?) of hearts that look to the pleasures of this world as more to be desired than Christ. I know this because I have fallen so short of what God desires for me to be in Him that I see the consequences and grief that come from a heart with mixed devotions. My prayer for Christians everywhere is that we would use the awesome amount of blessings that God has blessed us with, not only monetarily, but in all ways, to build up our neighbor in Christ. To unify the Body. To spread the fragrance of Christ wherever we go. To show, by virtue of the fact that nothing in our lives is so important to us as Christ, that Christ is most greatly to be desired and most hightly to be praised. Props to you for taking a stand, Caleb.
Thanks Stef, I don't know about being a pastor I have a little too much "Rage against the Machine" in me I think, but thanks. I think money and wealth are two of twenty things this discussion could be about. In the end our lives (Christians) should be so much deeper then what is in our driveway or any of the things we have. I love Bethlehem Baptist in a time in my life when I was so longing to be in a place I could call my spiritual home God provided. My point of that little tangent is to say this, the sermon given on November 20th and November 27th Pastor John went into the reasoning for any comments I have made about money. It was like the emotions of my heart were coming out of Pastor John’s mouth (which is not the first time in the last three years), especially on the 27th. I guess I would point to those two messages or any of the messages Pastor John has given on money or Christian Hedonism.
Oh, I wanted to add that in Mathew 25 the point I was really trying to make was that we could not take the parable to literally which I think is true of all parables but I do think it is talking about faith, resources, or the work of Christ, we have all been entrusted to do some things and we will give an account of those, I tried to look at a couple comentaries, but I guess my point is we should not take it to be literally talking about money. I would still love to continue the discussion on this subject I think it is an important one so please feel free.
Godspeed,
Caleb M. Saarela
Ha Ha, all Piper messages can be found at
www.desiringgod.org
Sorry bout that...
Caleb
Caleb-
I agree with most of your response, and the purpose of my original post was not to deny that there is a strong biblical impulse toward a simple life. The writer of proverbs asked that he not be so poor that he would be tempted to steal, nor so rich that he would forget God. I think this is a pretty acceptable standard. The only thing in your original post that I took issue with is the idea of a rule or generalization about what Christians should or should not own. There's a difference between saying "owning a lexus is inconsistent or even mutually exclusive with christianity" and saying "I have a friend who owns a lexus and I think that's poor stewardship, so I'm going to talk to that person about it and voice my concerns." It's the difference between using a relationship to counsel somebody on the one hand, and standing on a soap box and shouting down at the mass of humanity on the other.
This, to me, is why the issue is a sensitive one. What you said was not "gee Silas (or whoever) I really feel like you're using your resources in a way that is not honoring to God." I respect you and your opinions a lot, and while I might disagree with that, I wouldn't reject your views outright. What I do reject outright is a generalization. That, to me, is unscriptural. While your opinion may often be true, that those who spend their money unwisely miss a blessing from God, it's not up to you to decide that a lexus is ALWAYS an unwise decision. My view.
As far as why we defend the liberties of the rich while others starve, I couldn't agree more. I'm pretty conservative, so I oppose coerced giving (taxation to fund government entitlements) as both ineffective and immoral. However, I agree that the other end of the spectrum is also wrong, and America or any other country shouldn't build legal or institutional walls to keep the wealth with which God has blessed us in our country. People living in a state of opulence and luxury while the poor starve and die all around them is an abomination, and nothing I said was meant to deny that point. I guess you just got a little too specific (lexus, monetary value of home) and simultaneously too general (NOBODY should have these things) for me to be able to support that wholeheartedly. The points you made are good ones, they just need (in my view) to be qualified a bit before I can accept them as reflections of biblical truth.
Silas
PS. the whole concept of progressive taxation would be unnecessary if the Church in general weren't doing such a terrible job of following the mandate in James 1:27. It's only necessary for such a flawed and corrupt institution as government to step in if local charities and so forth cease doing their jobs, which in turn usually results from Christians with bad priorities. In this I agree with Caleb completely.
Silas
I guess a question I am left with is if by my saying it is not good for a Christian (being to general) to own a million dollar home or a Lexus is not O.K. because I do not know every situation (being to specific), then there must be situations where this was the blessing that God intended a Christian to have with their money. God wanted person A to make enough money to be able to afford these things and this was the blessing he wanted for them. I don’t see many examples of this in the Bible. I guess I have a hard time saying “May God be glorified through me luxuries. May God be glorified through my indulgence in earthly possessions.”
This then would be an example of where God did not want person A to have the many blessings Jesus talked about where we are to count the things of this world as less valuable then eternal things. He wanted them to have the blessings talked about in the Bible where we are to enjoy our earthly possessions.
Which again brings me to a question of where in the Bible are these blessing talked about. Where in our Bible does it say that we should enjoy the things of this world or count the things of this world as highly valuable and worth of our praise? So then maybe God has intended for me to be blessed by the things I own or the things I could own I should try and get more of them, and I am sure you see the problem here.
Another problem we run into is that everything I own is really not mine anyway it’s God’s every cent I make is His, so do we want to be spending His money on luxury cars and million dollar homes…
I guess I also have a hard time with the idea that it's not O.K. to make strong statements about the way we should live our lives. Especially if we would agree that the statements are based off of Bible. We all agree, "We should live a simple life." Are you arguing that any of that statement is subjective, I don't think it is. I guess I see it as acceptable to have some standards and say that spending forty thousand dollars on a car is not simple and therefore not Biblical again maybe not sinful but clearly not everything God wanted for that.
I guess the best analogy for this is that we Christians have started to set some standards up based upon Biblical principles is the idea of heavy petting in a physical relationship between a romantic couple. As Christians we affirm this idea yet it is not talked about in the Bible, it's not sex it is what we have deemed as inappropriate based upon Biblical themes. Even as I say it we all know exactly what I'm talking about even though the world would say "heavy petting" that is subjective we all know it's not we clearly know when we've crossed the line. Maybe that is part of the problem, the much of the American church has accepted a health and wealth gospel and we don’t recognize when we have crossed the lines of appropriateness when it comes to money and how we spend it.
That's not the best example but it will have to do for now cause I need some sleep. I hope that this conversation is stretching you Silas, I know it has for me. I knew I believed these things before but this has pushed me to have some backing for them more then just a feeling and a couple versus. I fear this is not very comprehendible sorry…
Godspeed…
Wow I just read that last comment that was some bad grammer and spelling... I was tired...
Godspeed
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